Thought Exercise #1

Discussion in 'Public General Chat' started by Trakaas, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. Trakaas
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    Refer here for the background:

    Dissolving the Question
    Righting a Wrong Question
    How An Algorithm Feels From Inside

    The gist: Deconstruction of the mental processes that lead to the question of "Does free will exist?" and the paradoxical result of two answers "Yes" or "No".

    I'm stuck and it's only the second step.

    Do I have free will? --> Unanswerable. Transforms to the more exact form of the question.
    Why do I think I have free will? --> I think I have free will because I do not perceive third party control of my thought processes.
    Why do I not perceive third party control of my thought processes? --> I do not perceive third party control of my thought processes because I have not exactly defined what I consider a third party.
    What is a third party? --> A third party is an external agent that influences my thought processes.

    Error: third party influences are intrinsic to our understanding of causality and interaction of matter, energy, and information. Either our understanding of physics is wrong or it is right. Which then devolves into the whole determinism vs non-determinism debate.

    Where am I going wrong?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  2. Gankfest
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  3. PersonalRiot
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    If you were to belief in nothing at all. Wouldn't that be simpler?
     
  4. Trakaas
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    See that's not going to help me. The point of the exercise is to generate the algorithm that will simultaneously generate determinism, compatibilism, libertarianism, and incompatibilism.

    I have to ask, did you even read the articles, Dag?
     
  5. Trakaas
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    It might be simpler, sure, but then I wouldn't know anything.
     
  6. Trakaas
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    That's as good a reason as any I guess.

    I'm going into Bioinformatics. Understanding cognitive psychology is one of those things that's intrinsic to the field. This is relevant and it's not a debate. It's understanding how a framework can simuntaneously come up with multiple answers.
     
  7. doctorie
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    well to answer this i go half way..then half way again...and again
     
  8. Trakaas
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    *eye roll* That's explained by calculus and isn't comparable to this. There is a step somewhere between interaction of environment with my brain and somewhere deciding a resolution to the conflict that I'm not understanding. Not that there's an infinite number of steps between decision A and decision B.
     
  9. PersonalRiot
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    You understand that there is indeed a conflict in which certain questions may or may not have definitive answers. I am not sure if you are looking to address the particular question in the opening post or the school of thought in general but these discussion are best taken place with people who have at least an educated background in Psychology. Why? Because your asking a gaming group (guild/whatever) to process the end resulting discussion of a deep human condition without preparing the initial groundwork that must be in place for such a discussion to happen.

    Anyways; the human condition in which we all lives our lives is particularly complex. If you wished to find enlightenment in hours, days, year, or ever then you will have done better than most before you.
     
  10. Trakaas
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    Most of you are older than me AND are in fields that would better be able to answer me than the imperfect knowledge I have right now. This is more a logic questions than psychology even if it's in the field of cognitive psychology.

    All I'm interested in is the dissonance between understanding constant interaction and then its application. Somewhere there is a thought that simultaneously allows both interaction and non-interaction to occur.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  11. s o k a r
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    Is Lev back again?
     
  12. PersonalRiot
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    Is it so strange that something like that can exist? Or at least appear to exist to our limited perspective? I would draw similar parallels to the Wave–particle duality of light which is an easy experiment to perform.
     
  13. Kyoji
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    The only thing you can know for sure is that you have a mind. Everything else is a belief. Descartes.
     
  14. Alavander
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    Reality is the net observations of the universe imposed on the perceived beliefs of a conscious observer.

    -me

    And that's as far as I have gotten in 30 years, good luck to you in finding your own answers.
     
  15. Gankfest
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    I like to find the truth in things. Rather than copping out, and not figuring anything out at all. What's the point of that; opposite of what life is about.

    Let's think about what you're asking here... Because we do live in a world full of...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hopefully no retards were harmed during this post... I do love those silly fuckers though! :D

    So... ya! : D
     
  16. PersonalRiot
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    Gankfest. You never cease to amaze me, and while it usually isn't in a positive light it is a testament to your continued resolve.
     
  17. Alavander
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    Hes good at getting threads locked

    wait for it........
     
  18. Gankfest
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    Hey thanks personal. That means a lot to me because I've been trying really hard lately. I just want to thank my friends, family, and guild for supporting me and my effort to conquer internet stupidity once in for all. I promise I shall not rest until all trolls are slain.

    [​IMG]

    I think we just need to have more maturity when it comes to diverse topics... His questions looks an awful lot like a homework question, but I could be wrong though. Which means if I am... Then I should be doing less fucking around, and more helping out. :p

    Either way fuck it... AA! :D
     
  19. doctorie
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    your asking a question to which there is no answer...I answered your paradox with another paradox...maybe you did not see what I did there.

    neither has an answer..they are just mental exercises. Dont hurt your self.
     
  20. Regis
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    what is a thought made of?


    In my opinion backed by no experience in this field at all only by my random thoughts:

    Most human advancement and everything we seem to be able to explain and understand is always based on some kind of pattern. Whenever any living being is trying to learn/advance/whatever it seems like the first instinct is to always look for some kind of pattern. Maybe try looking for a similar pattern in different ways you approach the problem and use that to explain some kind of answer that you can accept involving the thought process.

    More random thoughts that this thread spurred in my mind:

    It seems to me like we never accept anything that can't be explained by a pattern as truth. So if something existed that did not follow a pattern how would we know it really exists as what we perceive it to be?
    Is there one pattern that all other patterns are based off of? (i guess the answer to this is "No" if you assume that all patterns are derived from other patterns)
    I guess we are just built to utilize patterns in everything we do and maybe I will just leave it at that.

    Damn you all
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014