Bloom Unveiling Clean Energy Fuel Cell

I hope is the real deal...
google.. cut its natural gas use in half using this device...currently being tested at wal-mart and Fed-ex also.

Its being funded by venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins, which discovered and funded Amazon, Google, and other high-tech firms.

http://www.bloomenergy.com/

 

This link has more details than the PR site :

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/dec2009/gb2009127_746740.htm

I was unable to learn what makes this different from other fuel cells that exist already though.

They aim it at undevelopped countries, as a battery replacement for solar and wind generators, to store energy during the day and deliver back at night.

Hmm .. Can't see a real interest there. NASA has been using fuel cells for 60 years. The problem with them is cost.
They currently require expensive metals like Palladium or Platinum to reach acceptable efficiency.
Yet they don't mention that fact and speak like he invented something new.
I'm very cautious on that one.
Time will tell.

 

yeah, but just like superconductors, materials give way to processing of other materials eventually. don't count out cheap fuel cells yet.

 

<<For starters, Bloom's system relies primarily on oxygen rather than hydrogen.>>

Bullshit detector scrambles.

<<The ceramic core acts as an electrode. At high temperatures, a hydrocarbon fuel—ethanol, biodiesel, methane, or natural gas—on one side of the cell attracts oxygen ions from the other>>

natural gas is methane. D'oh.
And what happened to using hydrogen as stated in page 1 ?

The project is either a scam or the reporter is incompetent.

 

we will find out more 2/24
Such high profile biz being in on this..there has to be something to this.
Kleiner Perkins would be hard to fool...when they get in on something...smart money follows. The article Saffara points too does state that Google used a natural gas generator then applied this bloombox to it,and cut its NG use in half. So our searchs are more eco friendly.

funny...I never thought before about my google searches using gas...
wonder what my SPG is?

 

I think perhaps you should focus on the science in science journals instead of Business Week? From reading the article, it's described as a normal hydrogen fuel cell, but using a silicon-based ceramic in place of the coatings of the expensive metals mentioned before. Most current hydrogen fuel cells opperate using a metal plate coated with an amorphous metalic coating that can allow for proton transfer while still containing the hydrogen atoms. This seems like a real possiblity at cost reduction since the problem with metalic glasses is removed by using silicon due to reduction in ionic bond production within the cell.

The only question I have is where does the Carbon go? The article makes sense with connection to oxygen/hydrogen usages, but the carbon doesn't seem to go anywhere.

 

Well, if you have carbon in, you have carbon out.
If you feed the cell with anything else than hydrogen and oxygen, you will get CO2 at the end in addition to H2O.
Since Hydrogen is a major pain in the ass to store, you will use hydrocarbons instead and release CO2.

For example, Toshiba has a laptop using a fuel cell instead of a battery. You refill it with methanol instead of plugging into a power outlet.

 

well here is some news after the announcement was made....this is good news.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9161978/Bloom_fuel_cell_Individual_power_plant_in_a_box

 

from blooms sites

how a solid fuel sell works
http://www.bloomenergy.com/products/solid-oxide-fuel-cell-animation/

 

ES-5000 Energy Server

ES-5000 Energy Server Data Sheet

http://www.bloomenergy.com/products/data-sheet/

 

Just to put this in perspective :

Microturbines

Microturbines are scaled down versions of industrial gas turbines. As their name suggests, these generating units are very small, and typically have a relatively small electric output. These types of distributed generation systems have the capacity to produce from 25 to 500 kilowatts (kW) of electricity, and are best suited for residential or small scale commercial units.

Advantages to microturbines include a very compact size (about the same size as a refrigerator), a small number of moving parts, light-weight, low-cost, and increased efficiency. Using new waste heat recovery techniques, microturbines can achieve energy efficiencies of up to 80 percent.



from http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/uses_eletrical.asp

To sum up :

Bloom fuel cell generator
Power : 100kW
Efficiency : >50%

Microturbine generator
Power : 25-500 kW
Efficiency : up to 80%

 

The above does not mention its emissions...that is the important point. If it wasn't Id say just use ...

 

Hope you realize that emissions-wise the little drawing you posted is extremely clean (unless you hate water vapor!). Now if you start to talk about bi-products or waste, that is a different story. Hate to be picky, but debates hinge on the actual meaning of things, not on suppositions.

 

Since you're posting a drawing of it, do you realize that nuclear electricity is carbon-free ? The only thing that those big chimneys release is water vapor

 

nom nom nom opcorn:

 

true...got me there


wasn't debating..just pointing out humorously the point of the thread..an energy cell with no emissions.

Edit: I used the cartoon drawing to show I meant it in a humorous way. Sometimes I'm too subtle or blunt for forums..didn't mean any disrespect.

 

its definitely not you... Some people on these forums have a tendancy to take posts examining lines of thoughts as a means to show how much less we must know than them. I know I just laughed when I read the "answer" on how carbon is exchanged when I've worked in research in this field while in school for my degreee in engineering

 

He didn't accomplish coming off as smarter, just argumentative.
What he stated I imagine most 7th graders know.
So him implying I might not know was just bait.
Saying the pic was little... to demean the drawing.
The use of capitals..
He supposes I might not like water vapor. That was an absurd supposition. Unless it was meant to be Ironic with his statement on supposition.
It was very transparent..and not very clever devices.

"True..got me there"... .. I have to say I was laughing as I typed that.

 

I was just trying to be diplomatic, but the question always comes up though: "Are you smarter than 5th grader?" (amusing show btw)

 

I don't understand. What is your point? I was not trying to disagree with anything in this entire thread. I merely wanted to caution against the mixed wording, that is all. Are you really upset that I posted that and that I bolded the word? Really?? Good game, and thanks for the personal insults.