New russian fighter's maiden flight

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Saffaya, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. Saffaya
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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  2. doctorie
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    cool..would like to see it go thru some tests.
     
  3. Saffaya
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  4. The Cox
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    uh oh? That could be a good thing and a bad thing yes?

    I don't know much about radar, but that sounds bad.
     
  5. Saffaya
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    It means the plane really is stealth.
    As to whether it is a good or a bad thing, it really depends on your viewpoint.

    Personaly, I'm very glad to see the PAK-FA take flight.
    Russia is what separes Europe from China. I'm very glad to let the russians keep them in check. This plane will be a tool that allows them to do just that.

    India is a partner in another russian program, and they will also need good hardware to keep their border with their rival China.
     
  6. Seven
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    The stealth aspect is yet to be proven. Trust me on this, there are many more technologies out there to detect aircraft such as this, radar 'stealth' is really a red herring at this point. As for the statement of being 'more reliable', if that is true it would be the first time ever that Russian aircraft technology was actually 'more reliable'. Russian technology tends to center on easily replaceable and easily manufactured parts rather than long term reliability. The reason that still today there are so many very old (generation 2) Russian aircraft still flying is that the parts can be made in 'Bob's Welding Sweatshop'.

    Interesting take on the Europe/Russia/China thing. Funniest part there is that many geopolitical theorists would argue that Russia is China's main threat when it comes to expansion, definitely not Great Britain or (lol)France. Be careful what you wish for, that Putin fella is a real power-hungry asshole.
     
  7. s o k a r
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    From the sound of that wiki article OTH radar is outdated and not used. Its a good thing russia is finally caught up with the 1960s.
     
  8. Sirius
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    Not just an answer to the F-22, it is actually hard to tell apart from the F-22 to the untrained eye as well...
     
  9. Saffaya
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    I won't waste time dealing with your prejudice against russian military hardware. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
    Just pointing out that OTH is what allows the surveillance of foreign air bases 24h/24. The fact that you can't detect PAK-FA taking off is a problem to anyone who might be on its receiving end.

    The plane is designed to be stealth against more conventional RADARs too. However, since it just made its maiden flight, it will be a long time before it flies in the range of a foreign RADAR. OTH stealthiness is presently the only aspect we can be sure of .
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  10. Saffaya
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    To the trained eye, it feels more like the YF-23.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  11. Saffaya
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    Reliability and durability are very different.

    For example, in which rocket would you feel safer. Space shuttle or Soyuz ?

    The shuttle is more durable than the soyuz, it goes up again in space after a maintenance cycle.
    But the Soyuz is more reliable. The launch records are there to prove it.


    As Europeans, we have more ties, common history and cultural heritage with Russia than with China.
    And so does Japan btw, although in a lesser way. They are neighbours after all. Japan really should warm up their ties with Russia as China gets stronger and stronger.
    I hear Japan asked the Russian that the maiden flight of the PAK-FA take place where it did. Which is situated near Japan and only 300 km away from China.

    (blue dot)

    [​IMG]


    Better deal with Putin than the communist party of China, IMO.
     
  12. Seven
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    All xenophobic arguments aside, there is no evidence that Chinese expansionism since the end of WW2 is focused in any way toward moving west. It is, however, strongly noted that the Chinese continue their efforts to 'reincorporate' Taiwan, with this being the most likely course of action for the Chinese, whether peacefully or with military actions. This is not simply a move that would satisfy the Chinese, most geopolitical theorists believe this would be another step toward the Chinese reclaiming other island territories currently under the Japanese flag. East-ward expansionism is something the Chinese seem very interested in due to the ability for the Party to expand its hold on one of the most precious resources: labor.

    Westward expansionism has been a hallmark of the Russian dictatorial leadership for centuries, and it was no less prevalent in the 20th century. For the time since the fall of the USSR, the inherent economic instability within the RUssian nation actually served as a world-wide stabilizing force (they were forced to focus internaly rather than externally). However, as the Russian economy seems to be normalizing (with the Putin family garnering massive wealth and power) they can begin to expand their reach again.

    There are 2 separate operations going on here: the Chinese seem to be focusing on a world-wide economic dominance that forces cooperation through trade, whereas the Russians tend to favor the more traditional 'land-grab' policies. It will be interesting to see which becomes more powerful in the decades to come. In either event, the only true counterforce to either of these policies will be the US, either militarily or economically. At some point, European elites will need to stop the continuous 'USA bashing' and learn to work together for lasting peace and health.

    By the way, I am a 24 year veteran of the US Air Force, a command pilot with over 4500 hours (over 500 of that combat time), a graduate of the US Air Force Academy, and finished my time as Chief of Special Instructions in the Combat Planning and Tactics cell of the the Combined Operations Centers for the Pacific Theater of Operations. I worked daily with experts form around the globe on Chinese, Russian, Indian, Pakistani, Japanese, et al politics and military theory. Again, I have to say, be careful what you ask for, that Putin guy is a power hungry son of a bitch.
     
  13. Saffaya
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    The reason China cannot expand to the West are two-folds :
    _India, which is their secular rival.
    _Russia.

    In previous times, China's aviation was only notable for its number of planes, mostly imitations or local versions of a generation older soviet fighters.
    This was changed when the USSR crumbled, and russian military aircraft makers were on the brink of extinction, causing them to offer their latest generation fighter, the Su-27 and derivatives, for sale to other countries.
    China jumped on this and had factories built on its soil to produce the planes locally under licence. Then once they had the know-how, they basically said screw you russians, we'll keep producing the planes without paying you anything now.
    That means China will have whole fleets of current generation Su-27 derivatives, a formidable fighter, instead of the old clunky stuff they used to have. It is a shift of power.

    Which is why the advent of the PAK-FA is a good thing in my eyes. It gives the russian the edge back against China.

    Due to the shift of power in chinese aviation I have just described, Taiwan is really concerned and would like to acquire the F-22 in order to keep an edge against China, just like the russian have achieved with the PAK-FA. However, the US refuse to sell the F-22 to anyone.

    Not only. You must have read the reports on the ramp-up of the Chinese navy, including the construction of two aircraft carriers.
    Also their growing influence in African countries.
    And their 'string of pearls' expansion.

    This presentation centered on European installations will give a better view of what we are talking about to other readers :




    Not trying to downplay Russia's brutality or behaviour, but the US isn't always helping matters.
    During Georgia's attack on South Ossetia, Georgia was helped by US MLRS firings. American officers died in the reprisal.
    Russians seem paranoid by nature, but this behaviour isn't totally baseless.

    I don't see what you are refering to.

    Pretty sweet, I envy you. On what planes did you fly ?
    I grew up with the aim of becoming a pilot, as most of my childhood friends did. But the physical selection is merciless, my vision isn't perfect. We are still in contact with the few of us who managed to become pilots, which is how we get a lot of info that isn't officially released.
    I accomplished compulsory military service as reserve officer in ALAT (french light aviation army), and always kept myself knowledgeable in aeronautics, astronautics, and geopolitic/geostrategic matters which I find extremely interesting.
     
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  14. Seven
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    I suppose there really isn't an argument here from me. I am not saying in any way that Chinese expansionism is patently 'better' than Russian expansionism. What I am trying to convey is that the current Russian dictator (please don't tell me you're fooled into believing he is anything but) is not someone you want to play nicey-nice with and start a game of appeasement. It will end badly for the entire globe. Because he may be the 'enemy fo your enemy', do not count him as a friend, do not root him on, do not be proud of his accomplishments.

    Also, as for any US involvement in the Georgian conflict: I think you may have a bad source document. I would like to see the source you have that says the US participated in any way militarily in that conflict. Humanitarian aid was the full extent of US involvement on the ground.

    I flew T-37, T-38, T-34, and KC-135 aircraft. I instructed both basic and advanced flight training, as well as Masters level instructor training in Training Command. I flew the KC-135 in Iraq#1, Panama, Iraq#2, Bosnia, Somalia, and some other special operations worldwide.
     
  15. Saffaya
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    I'm just glad Europe doesn't have a direct frontier with China, and that the job is done by Russia instead.

    I honestly don't remember where I learnt it, it was two years ago and was just an interesting detail.
    Wikipedia has some info :

    "Military instructors and alleged use of foreign mercenaries

    At the outbreak of the war 127 U.S. military trainers including 35 civilian contractors were present in Georgia. Additionally 1000 troops from the US, and 10 troops from Armenia, Azerbaijan and Ukraine each, had participated in the military exercise "Immediate Response 2008" which ended only days earlier.[361] Several of these soldiers were still in the country. The United States European Command, EUCOM, stated that neither participated in the conflict.[362]"

    It isn't a big stretch of imagination to suppose that the wikipedia version is an expurged version of what really happened.

    Regardless, my point was only that Russia's paranoia should not be encouraged. It is already bad as it is right now.


    Ever had to refuel the Blackbird during your career ?
     
  16. Seven
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    'OP Immediate Response' would be rapid deployment exercise, the '1000 troops' would have been mainly logistics, aviation, and command. I doubt there we more than a few armed Military Police in that group. THe subject of 'Military Instructors' has always made me chuckle. Conspiracy Theorists use the term as a panacea for some covert government operation. In all reality, the US military (as does every major military in the world) contracts itself out to help in other nations in every field imaginable; training, syllabus management, electronic networking, combat meal preparation, disaster relief protocols, name a subject, someone has an instructor on it.

    As for the SR-71, the unit that refueled that plane was based out of Sacramento, California and had specially equipped planes (mainly radio equipment) for doing the refuelings. We were only trained on refueling them as an emergency. A couple of my more interesting qualifications were being special operations qual to refuel F-117 prior to public unvieling of the aircraft, and also being the first crew ever qualified on the B-2 stealth. We were part of the B-2 flight test team at Edwards/Palmdale. That was an incredible operation.
     
  17. Neptuno
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  18. Ben K
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    Whether elections are rigged in Russia or not, I suspect Russians vote for him anyway. They seem to value wily politicians a lot more than western Europe or especially the States.
     
  19. Saffaya
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    Hell yeah. It must have been awesome working there.
     
  20. bara
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    AWwww Unit cost US $100 million, that is how much Advanced Stealth Stigma should cost lol